Refugee Problem

[junkyardking]

Originally posted by 4play@10 July 2003 - 19:30
I believe that we should kick out all immigrants who have not lived here for at least 10 years. regardless of if they have had kids here.

I live in the London borough of brent which recently published statistics saying that white's are now in the minority in my area. Can anyone please explain to me why we are taking so many and why they are placing 100,000's in one of the most expensive places to live in the u.k

many years ago during the ressesion my family where made homeless. we had to go to are local council to be re-housed. my parents 4 sisters and brother( 8 people) where all told we did not have enough points to be eligable for a house. but of course all the asylum seekers where placed ahead of us so what would you expect. we were told we dont care when we said "we have no where to go".

Living with hundreads of these scum has kinda twistd my view towards them. they claim every benefit and privelage under the sun while we are forced to work to pay for them And do not tell me that aint true i have seen with my own eyes.

Please dont give me that bullshit about we need economic immigrants we have enough unemployed to fill these positions they just need to be forced to work.
cant remeber which foreign politicain said it best but " 3 million less immigrants 3 milions more jobs" get the picture.

And scan these people for fuck sake "we dont want to do hiv tests they might not like it" they are meant to be scared for their lives dipshits a simple blood test should be the least of their problems. Are local hospital has been reporting hundreads of deseases that where up until recently unheard of in the u.k can you guess where they come from

I do admit i have seen geniune cases( they do exsist people) but they should remain in safe countries in there area. why are we taking afghans for christ sake. to escape the taliban why not go to india or another local country.

these people travel across the globe for money people we dont want these spongers we have enough already. kick them out or force them to stay in their local regions.

sorry for the long rant. these people piss me off no end so i might have done a tad bit overboard. If you are offended by anything i said im very sorry but tuff these are my opinions and i will stick to them.

If you do believe i am wrong then i would like a few reasons. im more then willing to dicuss this and i have a strong opinon on this topic.

First of all to 4play comments I find them a bit ironic considering the fact the British invaded quite a lot of countries in the past bringing with them all the diseases of the day including America and where I am in Australia, but the fact you may have some diseases is more likely to do with a globalised world than a few immigrants coming to the UK, the thing with the UK is that it's a land of immigrants from all over Europe, the original people who lived in the British isles many thousands of years ago are not the same people who are there now.
But people who pay attention to just skin color are still around.

In Australia we have moved to the worst kind of conditions for refugees, Australia have become cruel and evil under the rule of the conservatives but the camps were created under labor, Australia sends people back to Afghanistan while it's still manly ruled by warlords the Afghani government has no real power beyond Kabul, Australia is even trying to send people back to East Timor who have been here for ten to twenty years, who sent up business and had families.

Even when a refugee gets a visa it's only a temporary 3 year one under which there life is in limbo because under it you can’t get a job, so you can’t plan for any future.

The refugee issue is more of a symptom than a problem, the world in the past couple of years has become more nasty to fellow humans, it no borders for money (free trade) but borders of brick walls for people, the issues run deep and it is more about the idea of World governance to solve problems than to selfish nationalistic one's that we see at the moment.

People complain about refugees but what do we say "send them back", send them to what? There deaths, to a hopeless life.

Until till humans see that’s it to better unite to solve problems than compete against it each other in a nationalistic ideal there will be more refugees and more suffering.

[Rat Faced]

I do symphathise with the family of 4play, and I can understand his frustration as he sees asylum seekers getting homes that he feels his family was entitled to. But it's first come first served and unfortunatly his family seems to have got themselves on the list a little later. (I do not know and that is pure speculation.)

Its NOT 1st come, 1st served.

Its a points system.

So many points for Children, so many points for being homeless, overcrowding etc etc

The people with the most points are at the top of the list.

Unfortunately the Asylum Seekers dont need to make points...they just go to the top of the list....in fact its worse.

The councils are supposed to keep 5% of the housing stock free for emergancies..so no matter how many points you have these do not get allocated.

However the asylum seekers DO get these....so even though your at the top of the list, the next house that becomes vacant isnt yours...it replaces the one that was taken months ago by the asylum seeker.

Where i say Asylum Seeker above...also read Refugee.


Immigrants are different though....as they are settling here, they follow the same rules as the population.....except they will always be at the top end of the list as Homeless.

[Ron]

I personally know a man who had a thriving business some years ago.
Due to a nasty divorce, he lost his business and money, and now lives in a homeless shelter.
He's 70+ and has to sleep in a dormitory with drunks and hobo's, although he has paid millions of $ over the years. (I'm not exagerating here)
Still, refugees, asylum seekers, immigrants come to Belgium and get housing, gas, electricity, food, clothing, etc., etc. for free.
Where is the justice in that?

[Rat Faced]

First of all to 4play comments I find them a bit ironic considering the fact the British invaded quite a lot of countries in the past bringing with them all the diseases of the day including America and where I am in Australia

Really? Invaded?

90% of the British Empire was NOT invaded by the British.

They were invaded by the French, Dutch and Spanish then given to the British as compensation after these countries lost wars with the British.

eg New York was originally New Amsterdam, Canada and India were both French, Australia was Dutch....

I agree though that a LOT of countries were invaded by Europeans, bringing Disease and wiping out whole swathes of the natives.

[junkyardking]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@10 July 2003 - 23:52

First of all to 4play comments I find them a bit ironic considering the fact the British invaded quite a lot of countries in the past bringing with them all the diseases of the day including America and where I am in Australia

Really? Invaded?

90% of the British Empire was NOT invaded by the British.

They were invaded by the French, Dutch and Spanish then given to the British as compensation after these countries lost wars with the British.

eg New York was originally New Amsterdam, Canada and India were both French, Australia was Dutch....

I agree though that a LOT of countries were invaded by Europeans, bringing Disease and wiping out whole swathes of the natives.

Well i know that Australia was never Dutch or given as compensation, there were Dutch who discovered Australia before Britian thats why it had that Dutch name of which i forget, but Australia after invasion was a British colony.

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by Neil__@10 July 2003 - 20:20
you seem very evasive of an intelligent debate
I think you only want bigoted ranting not reasoned argument.
you mention peoples media led opinion.
I'm sorry but i'm not going on a racist rant for you or anyone else
why not join your local Nazi party
I think they will have the quotes you're looking for.

Or am I wrong and why?

Neil

This was one of the reasons why I suggested an adult section for 18+.

[Neil__]

Edit Removed as argument seems to be resolved

[thewizeard]

I think that I was probably being to hard on you Neil. I have read again some of your earlier posts. You came up with some thoughts that are relevant.

Many countries do pass the buck as you put it and there are many families spread throughout Europe because their airplane happened to land in for example Portugal and not in Germany. ( you must claim asylum in the first safe country that you arrive in.)

I feel if you show a little more patience with the way I express myself then slowly you will understand my goodwill in this matter.

I am not affiliated to any politic party by the way.

As regards to the problem of regional asylum, Pakistan is overflowing with them likewise Iran. I always wonderd why many Afghans wanted to come to the UK. The social security system is not all that good compared to other Eurpean countries. The health system is tottering so to speak. It must be of course the english language.

There has been much progress in Europe towards a common policy. The major problem I believe is the cost of accomadating? Ok I will leave it there for the time being as I have to do some work. I will check out your reaction if any later.

Nigel

[Rat Faced]

Well i know that Australia was never Dutch or given as compensation, there were Dutch who discovered Australia before Britian thats why it had that Dutch name of which i forget, but Australia after invasion was a British colony.

Isnt that what i said?

It was Dutch, and we won it off them....not off the Aboriginies (which would have been an invasion).

We never fought over there, we fought over here...Australia was nothing more than a prize in a minor scuffle between 2 European Powers of the time.



Back on topic.....

Any that come through the Channel Tunnel to the UK should be sent back to wherever they came from, as they have broke the rules.

In order to enter the UK this way, they had to have been in France 1st (and possibly a number of other countries before that). The rules clearly state that they have to ask in the 1st EU country that they arrive in.

The stupid thing is, they would get their rights much quicker in somewhere like Belgium, and then they could travil to the UK legally and in comfort on the train, instead of getting run over by the train.

[Neil__]

Thank you nigel, and I take back my speculations on your motives for your evasiveness.

To answer your question I always feel sorry for anyone who has a need to leave their home for whatever reason.
that doesn't mean I agree with open ended immigration and refugee policies
I feel that the dutch model is a little too harsh in places and the belgian full of contradictions.
And here in britain. Turmoil. no-one in power seems to have a clue what to do
it's a sad part of British politics. "If you can't please everyone do nothing much"

That's why the thoughts on a united policy
But you have the self interest loggerhead problem then.
with each country trying to get the best for themselves individually

I can see why there is outrage with refugees being given homes before nationals
but what sort of caring society would we be if we gave them sanctuary in our country and then threw them into the gutter
We have a moral responsibility to those to whome we outstretch a caring hand.

I find myself torn between the natural feelings that one has for freinds and countrymen(they should come first) but on the other hand how can I turn my back on someone who is being persecuted for no more reason other than a state of mind
I do not envy you in the work you do but admire the people like you who are prepared to take on such a burden.
I wish I had an answer or anyone for that matter.
I will live in hope because there has to be a better solution than we have now

Neil.