Land Of The Free? Imprisonment Without Trial

[Rat Faced]

Well said iamnotanaddict.

Which brings us back to "Define Anti-American"......... 50+ different cultures is a lot of "anti"......

[lynx]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@18 August 2003 - 16:20
Well said iamnotanaddict.

Which brings us back to "Define Anti-American"......... 50+ different cultures is a lot of "anti"......

We'd better get started then.

Who want's to go first ?

[evilbagpuss]

Originally posted by lynx
Who want's to go first ? 

I'll have a go

From my experience it usually involves telling the truth about the USA's past actions and/or going against US foreign policy. Just because these things are directly relevant to the topic at hand/whats happening in the world today is no excuse.

Criticising the ludicrous anti-French sentiment that appears to be so popular in the US and explaining why its completely hypocritical is also Anti-American.

Funnily enough Anti-Americanism doesnt seem to involve hatred or bigotry.

I think that just about covers it.

[j2k4]

I'll have a go

From my experience it usually involves telling the truth about the USA's past actions and/or going against US foreign policy.

Whose truth? Yours or mine? They would, necessarily, be different. I think it would be more correct to state your opinion rather than attempt to claim unassailable truth.

U.S. foreign policy has been far from perfect. This does not preclude us from acting abroad; it should, though, advise us in current matters, and in the future.

Just because these things are directly relevant to the topic at hand/whats happening in the world today is no excuse.

They are relevant; in these ways:

1 As I noted above, they advise us as to future actions in the arena of foreign policy.

2 They serve as cannon-fodder for our critics.

EBP-what do you mean by, "....is no excuse"? Genuinely curious about that.

Criticising the ludicrous anti-French sentiment that appears to be so popular in the US and explaining why its completely hypocritical is also Anti-American.

You mean we can't engage in that which provides so much entertainment for others? How can we be anti-French if no one is being anti-American? We can play the game, too, can't we?

Or do you just mean we shouldn't bite the hand that "freed" us?

Honestly EBP, you ought to swear off the use of the word "hypocrisy" and all it's permutations; you over-use it.

Funnily enough Anti-Americanism doesnt seem to involve hatred or bigotry.

Is this some poorly executed attempt to launder or otherwise purify the intent of your post? Another of your patented proclamations from the presumptive moral "high ground"?

If your suppositions as re: the U.S. and it's foreign policy were actually "on the mark", you wouldn't need to do this, I don't think, but if you have yourself spotted the weakness in your post, please feel free to assuage yourself any way you see fit.

I think that just about covers it.

From where you are perched, I'm sure it does.

[Rat Faced]

So, Evilbagpuss' definition fails to impress.

Next?

[theprisoner]

Originally posted by echidna@7 August 2003 - 08:05
SodiumChloride & DarkBlizzard you're making the nazi's sound reasonable and humane - if you want to foster more anti-american attitudes, you're going the right way.

you claim that these people are terrorists yet there is no evidence of this
can you substantiate any of your accusations? [since your government won't i doubt that you can]

you seem comfortable that in cases of the US governments choosing the accused is guilty until proven Innocent

yes, there terroists(POW) and should be treated as so. Lol, humane, they would slit your throat if they got a chance. "if you want to foster more anti-american attitudes, you're going the right way", who gives a shit what you europeans think, your all on welfare in your socialist hell hole anyway. And j2k4, the french had very little to do with revoultionary war, only a blockade at the end. And the french didnt do it for the love of us, it was to screw the british.

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by theprisoner+19 August 2003 - 17:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (theprisoner &#064; 19 August 2003 - 17:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-echidna@7 August 2003 - 08:05
SodiumChloride & DarkBlizzard you&#39;re making the nazi&#39;s sound reasonable and humane - if you want to foster more anti-american attitudes, you&#39;re going the right way.

you claim that these people are terrorists yet there is no evidence of this
can you substantiate any of your accusations? [since your government won&#39;t i doubt that you can]

you seem comfortable that in cases of the US governments choosing the accused is guilty until proven Innocent

yes, there terroists(POW) and should be treated as so. Lol, humane, they would slit your throat if they got a chance. "if you want to foster more anti-american attitudes, you&#39;re going the right way", who gives a shit what you europeans think, your all on welfare in your socialist hell hole anyway. And j2k4, the french had very little to do with revoultionary war, only a blockade at the end. And the french didnt do it for the love of us, it was to screw the british. [/b][/quote]
"Your all on welfare in Socialist Hellhole"

Unemployment UK = 5%
US = 6.2%

Average Hourly Wage UK = &#036;18.62 (£11.73)
US = &#036;15.44 (£9.74)

Minimum Wage : UK &#036;6.67 (£4.20)
US &#036;5.15 (£3.24)

Income Tax:

UK: 10% rising to 23% (basic)
USA: 10% rising to 25% (basic)

In addition we have Universal Free Healthcare etc.....


Erm, think i&#39;ll stay in my "Socialist Hellhole" thanks.


j2k4,

Yes, I know it takes a LOT more than this to compare.....but the poster seems to be the type to not understand complex stuff

Please dont take this as "anti-american", it was "anti-anti-European"

[Neil__]

Anti Americanism is whatever they say it is.
America decides for itself and we have no part in the decision.

If they say your anti American then you are.

If you think that makes no sence then welcome to the club.

Neil

[Biggles]

I am not convinced it is possible to be anti any country per se, other than in momentry fits of pique. I can&#39;t think of any country that is represented by some homogenous one size fits all identifiable culture; not even Andorra - no, not even the English and that&#39;s something coming from a Scot.

Racism is a seperate issue and I am not even going to pretend I understand that. Perhaps lack of imagination and insecurity play a part - who really knows?

So what do people mean by anti -American? Do they mean they are anti-Native American? anti Hispanic? anti Afro Caribbean?

There is not one America. The views of Chomsky are no less American than Ashcroft&#39;s, the views of Martin Luther King no less American than Nixon&#39;s. Clinton is a welcome face at most world events (recently attending Mandela&#39;s birthday bash). We all like Scrubs (well I do).

The US produces some awful food (KFC to name but one) but it also produces some fine wines. (My country makes haggis but it also makes Whiskey)

For every Back street Boy there is an REM or Linkin Park ( or whatever). At the end of the day it is just another diverse country.

Admittedly the US currently has the biggest economy and along with that comes some muscle on the world scene. There has always been an element of competitiveness shown towards the leading power of the day. In the 19th century it was Britain, in the 18th it was France. So it goes back through the Empires of the Ottomans, Rome and Persia. Similar problems occurred in India and China. It will be the same for whatever power takes up the mantle next (probably China in about 50 years, but it depends on numerous factors and developing technologies).

The problem is, too much credence is given to mutterings by a few "visionaries" who see a role for the US in the 21st century as something messianic. I doubt if most of the US population has read more than a few words regarding this and probably cares even less. At most, the current administration will be there for 5 years then all will change once again.

So perhaps we should be clearer in our terms. We do not dislike America (a land mass with a diverse body of people), some simply take issue with the views of a handful of individuals who form part of the current administration (many of the US population do the same).

To identify a people or country too strongly with its rulers is a mistake. Remember, the people in charge are politicians and consequently are not technically even human.

As an aside, I think the opine comment a mistake as it does rather hamstring any suggestion you may subsequently make on matters outwith your own borders, but I appreciate it is galling to have foreigners take issue on domestic matters. The world is shrinking - we all have access to CNN and Fox if we want so it creates the illusion that everything is just over the fence.

[MagicNakor]

Originally posted by Biggles@19 August 2003 - 23:23
...To identify a people or country too strongly with its rulers is a mistake. Remember, the people in charge are politicians and consequently are not technically even human...

So what are they? Ro-bits?