What A Freedom... What A Democracy

[BigBank_Hank]

Damn I feel so left out I got no apologies

[Busyman]

Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@15 April 2004 - 15:30
Damn I feel so left out I got no apologies

Sorry BigBank. How's The SugarHill Gang?

[BigBank_Hank]

Originally posted by Busyman@15 April 2004 - 14:58
Sorry BigBank. How's The SugarHill Gang?

Doing fine

[Alex H]

Rat Faced & Busyman

Yeah ok, you got me I'll play nice now.

Originally posted by BigBank_Hank
or how the French government sold weapons to Saddam that were in violation the resolution passed by the U.N.

Oh come on! You can't blame the French for everything. The fact that the Americans (specific Americans, not all Americans) sold weapons, dual use technologies and chemicals to Saddam doesn't make you guys (not you per se, but the American government and the traditions of accountability it has) any better.

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by Busyman@15 April 2004 - 10:59
btw I wonder why soldiers are shooting cars that rush through checkpoints.

I think the soldiers should just sit there and allow "possible" terrorists to blow up a real target past the checkpoint. So far the checkpoints have had their share of suicide bombers.

i think the next time the u.s. gov't wants a foreign head of state to vacate his office, he should just come out quietly with his hands on top of his head and his pants around his ankles. yet another "w00t" for sovereignty.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+16 April 2004 - 00:32--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC &#064; 16 April 2004 - 00:32)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@15 April 2004 - 10:59
btw I wonder why soldiers are shooting cars that rush through checkpoints.

I think the soldiers should just sit there and allow "possible" terrorists to blow up a real target past the checkpoint. So far the checkpoints have had their share of suicide bombers.

i think the next time the u.s. gov&#39;t wants a foreign head of state to vacate his office, he should just come out quietly with his hands on top of his head and his pants around his ankles. yet another "w00t" for sovereignty. [/b][/quote]


And as the British say, "He&#39;ll get a roacket up&#39;is oss&#33;&#33;&#33;"

(and there will be a charred white flag in what&#39;s left of his hand)

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Mr JP Fugley+16 April 2004 - 12:16--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr JP Fugley @ 16 April 2004 - 12:16)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by Busyman@16 April 2004 - 04:46

Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC@16 April 2004 - 00:32
<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman

@15 April 2004 - 10:59
btw I wonder why soldiers are shooting cars that rush through checkpoints.

I think the soldiers should just sit there and allow "possible" terrorists to blow up a real target past the checkpoint. So far the checkpoints have had their share of suicide bombers.

i think the next time the u.s. gov&#39;t wants a foreign head of state to vacate his office, he should just come out quietly with his hands on top of his head and his pants around his ankles. yet another "w00t" for sovereignty.

And as the British say, "He&#39;ll get a roacket up&#39;is oss&#33;&#33;&#33;"

(and there will be a charred white flag in what&#39;s left of his hand)

who is you ? Dick Van fucking Dyke.

a dick and a dyke, thats a bit saucy matron. [/b][/quote]
who is me??

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Peace@15 April 2004 - 07:41




Officer Jimmy Massy&nbsp; said after he decided to leave the army and go back home to Carolina: in one month, me and battalion have killed 30 Iraqi citizens, that was during our mission that we were ordered to isolate some villages and to have a strict control on the check points.

has carried out from jimmy saying:

We never hesitated to start shooting on any car in the neighborhood that passes from the check point without stopping. We never allowed any report to reach such places.

And about his rezones of confusion about what the US military have done in Iraq he said:
I feel very ashamed about what we did… referring that the sights of bloods are chasing him every time he is trying to sleep, clarifying: we were in the beginning of the last April, when Baghdad was not captured yet, a red car was coming in our direction were we where standing in a check point in one of the neighborhoods…we didn’t hesitated to start shooting on it. And we hit it a direct hit. We killed three of the passengers and injured another one. Then he added: I cant forget the seen of the car will the blood were coming out from it and the voice of the injured man shouting in spite of his wounds: why you killed my brother?? We didn’t do anything for you.

Then jimmy said: the same thing happened with 2 other cars, and we killed 3 other citizens again. He added: I kept serving in this check point for one month and the orders that the Iraqi soldiers are undercover by citizens’ clothes, and the imbalances are carrying explosives.

The “Lomenaeeh French newspaper“referred that the only solution for the American soldiers was to kill them self. And the newspaper proved that by referring to the official declaration from the marines that 23 soldiers had killed there self in 2003.The newspaper pointed that the suicides have made the American management Very worried, that’s why they sent a medical team to Iraq to try to understand the increasing number of suicides Between soldiers .&nbsp; &nbsp;

You bring up an excellent point about American soldiers, Peace.

When a car runs a checkpoint it is the soldiers imperative to destroy that vehicle, as it is assumed to be a threat (suicide bomber, smuggler, whatever) and needs to be eliminated before it accomplishes its objective.

When the people killed turn out to be civilians, this deeply affects the soldier as a person. Why did they run the checkpoint, this death was not necessary. This blood was brought by my hands, I had no idea they were innocent, but I still feel sadness and guilt.

Soldiers in Iraq are turning to suicide because they a people seeing terrible things. In this guerilla/ambush phase of the war, a moments hestitation may put you in a pine box home and thus collateral killing of innocents occurs.

So although the soldiers are performing their duty as soldiers must, they are first and foremost human beings who are emotionally distraught by what they see. If we hated these people it would not matter, but we have no hate for them. We do not view them as anything other than humans in conflict.

Some cannot handle this mentally and turn to suicide. Who will not be permanently scarred after seeing corpses all around, comrades falling over dead, and mutilated children.

So thanks for your post, it really highlights the human side of American soldiers. It juxtaposes the idea that Americans are emotionless automatons who hate Arabs and have no consideration for their lives. As in the checkpoint scenario, they may be performing as a soldier must, but the person behind the uniform has no interest in killing an innocent and the stories of depression and suicide reflect this.

[Rat Faced]

Very well said, and i wholeheartedly agree with the point that a soldier has no choice but to shoot first and ask questions afterwards, if a car is not stopping at a checkpoint.

If there are innocents killed, especially women and children, this will affect any sane Human Being... hell killing enemy soldiers is bad enough

[vidcc]

Originally posted by hobbes@17 April 2004 - 10:48

When a car runs a checkpoint it is the soldiers imperative to destroy that vehicle, as it is assumed to be a threat (suicide bomber, smuggler, whatever) and needs to be eliminated before it accomplishes its objective.

When the people killed turn out to be civilians, this deeply affects the soldier as a person. Why did they run the checkpoint, this death was not necessary. This blood was brought by my hands, I had no idea they were innocent, but I still feel sadness and guilt.

Soldiers in Iraq are turning to suicide because they a people seeing terrible things. In this guerilla/ambush phase of the war, a moments hestitation may put you in a pine box home and thus collateral killing of innocents occurs.

So although the soldiers are performing their duty as soldiers must, they are first and foremost human beings who are emotionally distraught by what they see. If we hated these people it would not matter, but we have no hate for them. We do not view them as anything other than humans in conflict.

Some cannot handle this mentally and turn to suicide. Who will not be permanently scarred after seeing corpses all around, comrades falling over dead, and mutilated children.

So thanks for your post, it really highlights the human side of American soldiers. It juxtaposes the idea that Americans are emotionless automatons who hate Arabs and have no consideration for their lives. As in the checkpoint scenario, they may be performing as a soldier must, but the person behind the uniform has no interest in killing an innocent and the stories of depression and suicide reflect this.

was it lee clegg that was jailed for shooting a civilian in a car that went through a checkpoint in Norther Ireland?.
At least the American troops are not subject to criminal retribution