Innocent shooting

[lynx]

My point was not whether you think they were justified in their actions. What I was trying to highlight is the apparent double standards with regard to what is permissible and where and under what circumstances.

BTW, this is not aimed at Dan or Boab, their responses are simply representative of one side of this argument and I don't mean to suggest that they are guilty of these double standards.

That said, I think it is a dangerous precedent if we allow what are effectively "hit squads" to act as Judge, Jury and Executioners.

[JPaul]

That said, I think it is a dangerous precedent if we allow what are effectively "hit squads" to act as Judge, Jury and Executioners.

I don't think that's the case at all here.

It was apparently an operation which was ongoing. They were following one of the subjects. He then acted in a totally unusual manner. When challenged he ran onto a train.

I agree that they probably intended doing no more than follow this man, to what end I have no idea. The killing was precipitated by what he did.

Given the current circumstances this was a tragic accident.

[Busyman]

My point was not whether you think they were justified in their actions. What I was trying to highlight is the apparent double standards with regard to what is permissible and where and under what circumstances.

BTW, this is not aimed at Dan or Boab, their responses are simply representative of one side of this argument and I don't mean to suggest that they are guilty of these double standards.

That said, I think it is a dangerous precedent if we allow what are effectively "hit squads" to act as Judge, Jury and Executioners.

However, the example you gave is flawed.

It's pretty simple. The gentlemen that was killed acted in a dangerous manner during heightened alert status. Even further, the police are not known for being "unfair".

To equate Saddam's police force to London's is exagerrated.

[masta.z]

i read in on of the newspapers at work that as the guy was fleeing there was wires visible hanging out of his jacket...
as he was an electritian this could be true, but it would certainly have made him seem even more like a suicide bomber

personally i think the police officer made the right decision although regrettably the person "appears" to have had no terrorist links or wasn't up to something... but as mentioned before he could have just been a decoy or sent to test the security for the next round of attacks

only time may tell...

[lynx]

I am amazed at how many of those who have spoken out against Israeli tactics seem so willing to accept them when their own country is exposed to the same sort of threats.

[JPaul]

I am amazed at how many of those who have spoken out against Israeli tactics seem so willing to accept them when their own country is exposed to the same sort of threats.

Which particular tactics would you describe as being "Israeli tactics", as opposed to any other type of tactics.

Oh and whilst we are on it, who are you talking about when you say "I am amazed at how many of those who have spoken out against Israeli tactics seem so willing to accept them when their own country is exposed to the same sort of threats"

I am genuinely intrigued, as I have not noted the same phenomenon. Who are these dissenters of which you speak.

[Busyman]

I am amazed at how many of those who have spoken out against Israeli tactics seem so willing to accept them when their own country is exposed to the same sort of threats.

Another flawed comparison.

They are two entirely different situations.

[lynx]

I am amazed at how many of those who have spoken out against Israeli tactics seem so willing to accept them when their own country is exposed to the same sort of threats.

Which particular tactics would you describe as being "Israeli tactics", as opposed to any other type of tactics.

Oh and whilst we are on it, who are you talking about when you say "I am amazed at how many of those who have spoken out against Israeli tactics seem so willing to accept them when their own country is exposed to the same sort of threats"

I am genuinely intrigued, as I have not noted the same phenomenon. Who are these dissenters of which you speak.

The anti-suicide bomber tactics which teams were sent to Israel to learn. If you wish to dispute that I suggest you take it up with John Stevens, former Met Police Commissioner, since he is the one who claims he sent the teams.

As to those who now appear willing to accept these tactics, I suggest you read some of the threads regarding the Israel/Palestine conflict. I'm not going to trawl through them. If you can't work out for yourself those who have spoken out against them in the past then you are unlikely to take my word for it so there's little point.

I am amazed at how many of those who have spoken out against Israeli tactics seem so willing to accept them when their own country is exposed to the same sort of threats.

Another flawed comparison.

They are two entirely different situations.

Different in what way? Are you now suggesting that it is ok for British police to gun people down in the street, but not ok for Israelis to do the same against Palestinians?
Your logic escapes me.


On a brighter note, South Wales Chief Constable (and former Asst Met Police Commissioner) Barbara Wilding says that police teams can only kill with the permission of senior officers. So that's ok then.

[Jon L. Obscene]

Ok according to interviews on sky news they were watching the wrong flat.
The guy lived in flat 17, they were spose to be watching flat 21.

So the officers who shot him were totally justified. They were given instructions to "Stop" the man.
This raises issues of clarity no?

At this time how much force is to be used?

They were told to stop him, he would'nt stop so they stopped him.

One thing that does bug me tho was some of the protesters banners "Rascist murder"???
How exactly was this rascist? because he was'nt white?

I don't think the officers thought they'd shoot him 7 times in the head and once in the shoulder because he was'nt white. They were following orders, a descision had to be made, the officer made it.
Try to put yourself in his position for a moment.

Also people keep saying he's Brazillian and might not have understood.
Well considering he's an electrician been living in the uk for a couple of years, if he cannot understand the words "Stop or we will fire" then how the hell did he get any business??

Jonno

[Busyman]

Which particular tactics would you describe as being "Israeli tactics", as opposed to any other type of tactics.

Oh and whilst we are on it, who are you talking about when you say "I am amazed at how many of those who have spoken out against Israeli tactics seem so willing to accept them when their own country is exposed to the same sort of threats"

I am genuinely intrigued, as I have not noted the same phenomenon. Who are these dissenters of which you speak.

The anti-suicide bomber tactics which teams were sent to Israel to learn. If you wish to dispute that I suggest you take it up with John Stevens, former Met Police Commissioner, since he is the one who claims he sent the teams.

As to those who now appear willing to accept these tactics, I suggest you read some of the threads regarding the Israel/Palestine conflict. I'm not going to trawl through them. If you can't work out for yourself those who have spoken out against them in the past then you are unlikely to take my word for it so there's little point.

I am amazed at how many of those who have spoken out against Israeli tactics seem so willing to accept them when their own country is exposed to the same sort of threats.

Another flawed comparison.

They are two entirely different situations.

Different in what way? Are you now suggesting that it is ok for British police to gun people down in the street, but not ok for Israelis to do the same against Palestinians?
Your logic escapes me.

Duuuuh...then how is it different when it happens in America and non-terrorist related.

The fella was perceived as a real threat. It ain't rocket science.

If the police have guns drawn and I go for my wallet in my coat, I will probably be shot.

You generalize "British police gunning people down in the street" like a typical sensationalist.

To add to that. I never said it wasn't ok for Israeli's to do it.
If a grown ass Palestinian man simply wants to throw rocks at Israeli soldiers, I think he knows what may happen.