Israeli Ambassador

[Rat Faced]

Of course the demolitions are fair...

extract:

On Wednesday, December 10, having already demolished two houses in Beit Hanina, the Ministry of Interior sent its bulldozers and jackhammers to demolish another four houses in Jabal Mukaber, Silwan and Ras el-Amud. Getting word from Palestinian residents that the bulldozers were on the way, ICAHD members Jeff Halper and Meir Margalit rushed to the scene, where they attempted to stop the demolitions by sitting in front of the bulldozers. At the same time they contacted senior officials in the Ministry, because the director the Ministry's demolition activities, Zvi Schneider, has a reputation of demolishing houses with unofficial or partial orders, thereby denying the residents the right to appeal to the court. (ICAHD is a party in a court case currently being brought against Schneider.) Sure enough, the family's lawyer had obtained a court order that morning forbidding the demolition. Despite orders from his superiors, Schneider refused to show us the demolition order, or to stop the demolition. Only when the entire house was almost totally destroyed did Schneider finally accede to Ministry orders to stop the demolition. The home of Adnan Shahin, his wife and their six children, home for the past four years, is almost a complete loss. The families now live in a tent in the Jerusalem winter. Halper and Margalit were arrested; charges are still pending.

Schneider and the Ministry's crews then went on to demolish another four homes.

[Billy_Dean]

l think people like venom\putty are to be pitied. They have obviously been brainwashed by their government and other zionist organisations. Just leave them alone. They are not the answer, they are the cause. We should choose to ignore them.

[venom_il]

yes, we have been severely brainwashed by google, CNN and other credible sources..

a little tip: no one would love to harm Israel more than the Israeli media and that's a fact. one of the most anti Israeli media is Israel's. there are heavy anti government bodies in the media who always try and discredit the government, it's actions etc. if there were PROOF of the bullshit spread in this thread, the Israeli media was the first place you'd find it, so I doubt even someone who only listened to the Israeli media would be brainwashed. censored Israeli media ROFL and hearing that from a BBC viewer, that's a killer

but of course, the Arab propaganda you have been listening to is the proper source

1234 - addressing your entire post, that has reached a level of ridiculousness beyond the scope i can handle, is moot. let my just correct your most blatant logical errors that i saw at a first glance - I said that at the current state, Arab armies are going to have a problem defeating Israel.. if we gave up our territories (we were the ones who always had a settlement here and the Arabs were the nomads you tool, Arab immigrates only came here after the Zionists started developing the country in the late 19th century) the situation would change and regardless of win or lose, a war would take a bigger toll on Israel .. FFS such simple logic escapes you

and enough with the first strike nuke bullshit and your conspiracy theories.. Israel was facing total destruction so it "deployed" the weapons to intimidate the Arabs and buy some time.. Israel didn't need to blackmail the US because they were already helping, i mean your lies don't even make any sense, what's up with that? and Israel has never even admitted to having nukes, much less state they'd use it as first strike ans it's funny how you know what Dayan wanted to do, really.. you must be a great telepath. BTW even if Israel used the nukes at that time.. it was only after the Egyptians and Syrians were well in the midst of their combined attack (that went pretty well and was close to success, success meaning destroying Israel).. so how would that be pre-emptive, genius?

your country has never armed the weapons, well no shit sherlock. when your country is invaded in multiple fronts and you face total annihilation, we'll chat again. lol i just noticed you said you'd never consider using nukes even at the face of total destruction. why do you have them then? shouldn't you first amend he horrors of your country (by your point of view) that is disarm the UK of nukes (I mean you'd NEVER use them right? ) before you go off about others? and allow me to laugh in your face and state the fact that your government and therefore the vast majority of the UK population does consider using nukes, otherwise you wouldn't have them. and regarding "the UN would never let Israel lose etc" that's the biggest joke Ive ever heard, we've seen the UN and it's troops (who allowed the kidnapping of 3 of our soldiers in front of their eyes and then withheld information from us). now the US is a completely different story, but the day you are willing to put your existence in the hands of another country, friendly as it is (and there is no bigger friend to Israel than the US, like I said we owe them the world), like i said we'll chat again

regarding bombing of Dublin, well obviously no. you haven't been listening to what Ive been saying and just repeating yourself. maybe if you read again, you'd understand

what are these other mysterious wars you mention? there were 5 wars, all started by the Arabs, please educate me otherwise if I'm wrong (with links preferably). so we have tried to destroy Lebanon several times? that's lies, i mean news to me.. just keep in mind that Israel has NEVER been on the offensive initially and always retaliated for it's own safety. anything beyond that is complete bull

and how would the Palestinians launch a war? god you're impossible. perhaps if you understood THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS THE PALESTINIAN ENTITY, they never had a country and they have always been refugees and immigrants from different of Arab states, you'd understand why they could not have launched a war. what they have done, however, is run from the land after being promised by their Arab friends to get the land after the war was over and Israel destroyed. and so far Israel has been treating them the best, far better than Lebanon and and Egypt who butchered them by the tens of thousands. a nice little tidbit about the PLO - the only purpose of it's existence, as written in it's official decleration, is to add another front (political) to the war upon israel in the ultimate purpose of all arab states to destroy it. a little quote:

The late Faisal Husseini, Arafat's Jerusalem representative, a man who was cultured, sophisticated and considered the most moderate of all the Palestinians, shortly before his death on May 31, 2001, expressed his true feelings in an interview with the popular Egyptian newspaper el Arav. Husseini said: "We must distinguish the strategies and long-term goals from the political-phased goals which we are compelled to accept due to international pressures." But the "ultimate goal is the liberation of all of historical Palestine." Explicitly he said: "Oslo has to be viewed as a Trojan Horse."

He even added and clarified that it is the obligation of all the Palestinian forces and factions to see the Oslo Accords as "temporary" steps, as "gradual" goals, because in this way, "We are setting an ambush for the Israelis and cheating them." He also differentiated between "strategic," long-term, "higher" goals, and "political" short-term goals dependent on "the current international establishment, balance of power" etc.

All of historical Palestine! Does not this include all of Israel and all of Jordan?

again, feel free to google it, the facts remains true

Israel never offered the Palestinians a country? besides what putty said, what about camp David where Barak offered 98% of the so called "territories" to Arafat and he declined ?

and regarding the "occupation" - like putty said, Israel has immediately offered the entire liberated land to Egypt (Gaza strip) and to Jordan (Judea and Samaria) after the occupation who both declined (they didn't want the Palestinians, they knew just how great the Palestinians were) so please shut up about that

Palestinian tanks ?!?! what are you talking about ?? can your logic be that bad or was that some sort of joke?

I'm talking about Syrian and Egyptian tanks that'd go through the "Palestinian" land without any resistance. and prey tell, what would you have us do if the nice little Palestinian country were to start arming itself with tanks, airplanes and missiles ? it's obvious a Palestinian country would be a terror country, possibly owned by Syria like Lebanon, do we want them to have the strategical advantage
as well ? well obviously you do, forget it

FACT - Israeli soldiers are 18 and above

I have actually addressed the so called human shield civilian bombing etc issues , and your failure to accept facts stands still. putty addressed the legal issues, again, reality -1, you - 0

"Insulting gentiles"? oh, i insult gentiles and non-gentiles alike trust me, if you knew Hebrew I'd point you to an Israeli political board where I insult Jews far, far worse over the same subjects

first lefty says I accuse him of being anti-semitic which is a complete fabrication, and now you say i disagree with you and supposedly insult you because you are a "gentile" by your wording. well, like putty said, the only side that has brought up religion and ethnicity is yours.. I prefer sticking to the facts

lastly, i noticed you brought up king david as a terrorist act.. well i could write a whole different post about that but the short story was that A) only the northern section which was a MILITARY section was targeted, like all targets of the israeli liberation groups, and even so they were prosecuted by the jews themselves who gave them up to the british TO BE EXECUTED B ) jews worked at that building as well so it's stupid to say they wanted to kill civilians C) they both sent a letter and called a few times to tell them to evacuate the building and there was a bomb but the arrogant soldiers disregarded them

I only pray I can resist the urge and ignore your next posts, your true nature is only becoming more and more apparent

@Rat faced - and we demolish houses for... fun? shits and giggles? specific houses are demolished so they would not serve as terrorist outposts. have you heard of the case where a Palestinian approached the IDF and asked them to demolish his house because it was frequently used by terrorists?

[Billy_Dean]

And so the bullshit continues ..... on and on and on and on ....

Most of the world disagrees with you. Most of this forum disagrees with you. Common sense and history disagree with you. But you carry on, people like you do the Palestinian cause a huge favour. Your bullshit is so transparent it really needs no rebuttal. You'll lose, evil always loses in the end. And they don't come much more evil than Israel!

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@4 February 2004 - 10:28
And so the bullshit continues  .....  on and on and on and on ....

That much, at least, is true.

I feel it more prudent to merely forego further pronouncements on the question, although I think stating that one opinion or allegiance holds sway as majority would be a bit difficult to prove, and in any case irrelevant; we all celebrate the freedom to hold our own opinions, yes?

I have no doubt of where you, Billy, or leftism, 1234, venom or putty stand on the issue.

I have made my views known in other threads.

I think the one certainty is that we shall never agree; the view may, in some cases, widen, but the bottom line doesn't change a whit, does it?

[venom_il]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@4 February 2004 - 15:28
You'll lose, evil always loses in the end. And they don't come much more evil than Israel!

Israel evil eh? and what goodly country might you be hailing from ?

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by venom_il@4 February 2004 - 12:35


@Rat faced - and we demolish houses for... fun? shits and giggles? specific houses are demolished so they would not serve as terrorist outposts. have you heard of the case where a Palestinian approached the IDF and asked them to demolish his house because it was frequently used by terrorists?

You obviously never read the article.

In this case it was to build houses for the Jewish Community, and the demolition was continued despite a court order that it should not go ahead.

The guys that tried to stop the demolition were arrested, not the guys going against the court order....



Also, after you "anti-semetic violence" tirade against the UK/Europe.

Have you police started arresting the thugs that attack Christians in Israel yet?

Have the ultra-orthodox jews stopped attacking women that dress "immodestly"?

Jews can leave and return to Israel anytime they want, however a Muslim that doesnt apply for specific permission to return, loses his citizenship...fair?

Just a few things i read in the US State Department site re: Israel (not the Occupied Territories, which Internationally are not recognised as Israel however much you wish they were (even by the USA))



Oh yeh....how can anyone living in a country where you can be arrested for speaking in support "Banned" organisation (a decision taken unilaterally by certain heads of Department, not the legislature as a whole) claim to have a "Free Press"? They are free to criticise, however i believe they have a whole department devoted to censoring anything that touches on "National Security"...something decided by the censors themselves.

Of course they can appeal these decisons (and the good thing is that the censors cant appeal the things that go against them..its not all bad)....however by that time it isnt "News", is it?

Dont get me wrong, this is a general criticism of the media throughout the world..including our own, which are sometimes muzzled for the stupidest reasons; however a declaration of a "Free and unbiased Press" anywhere has to be taken with a pinch of salt.



You want your world rankings for "Press Freedom"?

44th Concerning Israel

146th Concerning the Occupied Territories

Source


We better all get some Finnish Newspapers......anyone got a Finnish Translator?

[venom_il]

true, I haven't read the article because I know the phenomenon
I don't know the details of this specific case but i do know your source is some leftist / Arab extremist site and i wouldn't believe a word in it

and even though generally, demolitions sprout from security reasons, they are still heavily criticized here, just to let you know

thugs that attack Christians? is that some sort of joke? what the hell are you talking about ?? are you insinuating there's some form of Christian segregation? how ridiculous is that let alone the fact that the police barely arrests thugs that attack anyone, there's no such thing as Christian segregation here. i mean with Muslims/Arabs there's obviously tension and in some cases you could claim segregation but with Christians it's just a sad joke, it's unthinkable. I want to see the source

ultra-orthodox - everybody hates them, what's you point ? do you like ultra Muslims who preach for violence or ultra Christians that claim everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus is a sinner and will go to hell ?

RE the site u gave, even assuming it's credible and objective which i somehow doubt, I'd say 44 isn't that bad, especially for a country in our condition. who the hell was talking about press in the territories? I was talking about Israeli media. the UK is also part of the Iraqi occupation and they're not doing too hot there.. all US's fault ? in any case, of course there's censorship when matters of national security are concerned, what's so surprising about that...

RE citizenship - I hope I don't need to remind you under which circumstances this country was established, why it's called "the land of the Jews" and why it's important to preserve a Jewish majority resulting inevitably in unfair rules in that regard. however, I'm not familiar with the specific law you mentioned, and I'd like a link to the exact phrasing if you know of one

all and all it's very easy to criticize Israel, but the important question would be what others would be doing in our stead. would you give up territories without which your country would be extremely vulnerable to a devastating attack? (one that has been commenced 5 times before) would you be more compassionate than us to the Palestinians, who given the slightest break or trust use it to execute terrorist attacks? did you know the vast majority of Palestinians support terrorism and go out to the streets dancing after every terrorist attack (including the 9/11) ?

RE Israeli Muslim Arabs - did you know that EVERY SINGLE terrorist attack was due to the help of an Israeli Muslim Arab ?

It's a tough situation and with all due respect, we have all seen how the UK behaved when they were here .. executed whoever the hell they wanted without trial (whereas Israel puts the most evil murderers in jail), killed Muslim oppressors and then wrapped pork around their bodies to spite them and generally did whatever suited them, without any regard for any native, either Muslim or Jew. not to mention abuse of the mandate that was given to them just until Israel would be ready to stand on it's own, which it obviously was

now don't get me wrong - I fully understand the way the UK behaved when they were here and you would never hear me criticize them - I'm just saying any other country in our position would have acted far worse, and you need only look at the US in Afghanistan and the combined forces in Iraq for proof

perhaps the most blatant example would be
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3386695.stm
(BBC )

again, fully support them and I wouldn't dream of criticizing them, but I do find it odd for them to criticize us

BTW - why the massive interest in Israel? the Russians are doing far worse with the Chechen's (somehow i think the Russians don't really need that territory) and so are the Chinese in Tibet. there are other countless examples in the world. we are without a doubt the most humane of all .. and yet, I haven't seen a single thread in this board (or any other one Ive been to for that matter) discussing other feuds.. why is that ? because criticizing Israel is the easiest, that's why

[Billy_Dean]

Another post without verified facts or sources. Typical! You also comment on a website you haven't visited because you already "know" what it contains.

would you give up territories without which your country would be extremely vulnerable to a devastating attack?

You mean like WW1 and WW2 ?

did you know the vast majority of Palestinians support terrorism and go out to the streets dancing after every terrorist attack (including the 9/11) ?

You asked them did you?

RE Israeli Muslim Arabs - did you know that EVERY SINGLE terrorist attack was due to the help of an Israeli Muslim Arab ?

Every single one? l wonder how idiotic you could be if you really tried.

l don't see anyone leaping to your defence here, and l'm not surprised.

[venom_il]

well since it's basically a European board I'm not too surprised either
I have been to US boards and the situation is quite different

of course ppl are going to leap at me now claiming i called all Europeans anti-semitic, but anyone who thinks that, please read again and consider i only deal with facts and the general opinion in Europe is no secret according to many surveys, one of them the one claiming Israel is the most dangerous country in the world the

"You mean like WW1 and WW2 ?"



besides the fact england has about 9 times both territory and population Israel has, it's surrounded by allies/neutrals with which it has defence arrangements. Israel is surrounded by hostile Arab countries in the midst of an Arab/Muslim sea. and what about the fact that england is far easier to defend than Israel, being an island ?

"You asked them did you?"
yes, we asked them and since they always do what we ask them to, for example stop terrorist attacks, they did it

"Every single one? l wonder how idiotic you could be if you really tried."
yes, every single one. more than that, there were many Israeli Arabs who actually planned to commit terror attacks within Israel, much like their Palestinian brethren

look for yourself
http://www.google.co.il/search?num=100&hl=...bs+terror&meta=

and you haven't answered the question - what country are you from ? am i to understand from your reply it's the UK ?